Wilder-Fury II likely delayed...

Per Mike Coppinger

“Breaking: The WBC has been notified that Tyson Fury will take an interim fight in May or June before pursuing the rematch with Deontay Wilder in fall, per sources. Fury wants to build his profile in the U.S. on ESPN to make PPV fight a bigger event”

Very few quality HWs on the roster of Top Rank or Frank Warren's roster of fighters. Possible names available: Gorman, Parker, Jennings, Rivas.

Comments

Champion97's picture

I don't think Fury wants Wilder, it is so unnecessary to delay the rematch, he doesn't need to build his profile in the US after the first fight.

fury has no belt

I think it's one the condition of the deal with arum to take over fight before wilder

parker or rivas why not, gorman omg

SalTnutZ1's picture

If I’m Wilder, and I know that (allegedly) Fury sat on a 50/50 contract for nearly a week, then signed with TR out of nowhere and pulls this stunt, after saying he’d fire Frank and Bob if Wilder wasn’t the first fight of his deal, I’d go ahead and beat Breaezeale up, then go for the AJ fight, and put the ice on Fury. That was some BS. Seems to be happy with the moral victory that the public gave him against Wilder, and knowing how it is to go 12 rounds with a killer and making out, even edging it in many people’s eyes, he may not want that fire again, being unsure he could avoid the KO for another 12.

Champion97's picture

Sounds like a good plan, because of the time overlap with AJ, AJ vs Miller rules out AJ vs Wilder, so that can't happen next, and ultimately, AJ holds the cards, not Fury, AJ is his real rival, not Fury, he has the belts.

I think Wilder does not want to hear another word out of Hearn until he has beaten Fury, and he can get at least 40%. Absolutely, people expected Fury to push the rematch, Wilder to not want to go through that again, well Wilder has only said it is 100% next, Fury has said stupid stuff like 'don't be a shithouse', but complicating the negotions, trying to take other fights, he doesn't want it, I think Wilder hits harder than he thought, and although Fury has better natural recovery powers than any fighter I have ever known of, no quit in him either, he doesn't have a granite chin.

Fury seems proud of himself more than anything else, wants to fight and make money, but when he says he doesn't care about reputation, he lies, he boxed extremely well against Wilder, did very well to get up and recover from being flattened and almost knocked out like that, but he should not manipulate people into thinking he is something he is not, he knows how good he is, he knows if he had the dicipline of AJ or Wilder, which he does not, he would have clearly beaten Wilder, has talent and potential on a different level, but he doesnt want Wilder again. I don't think Fury will be able to have much success waiting out Wilder, power doesn't leave you like other attributes do, and Wilder will still have the power to knock him out no matter how long he tries to smoke him out.

maybe he wants wilder vs AJ and take the winner

Champion97's picture

I don't buy that, and if it is true, then he can't have it both ways, if 'it ain't happening', why would he expect the winner to fight him? It doesn't add up, Fury is a very clever man, he pulls the wool over your eyes, I am not saying he isn't a warrior, but what I am saying, is he is a smart man as well as a fighter, and he understands how dangerous Wilder is, he also wants the pulbic to be against Joshua, not because he is a bad person, but because he wants to be considered the rightful champion.

Gold's picture

If Fury fought Wlad in Germany when everyone thought he would lose, and he fought Wilder less than a year into his comeback when everyone thought he would lose, why would he be scared of rematching Wilder when the vast majority of people had him winning clearly? This sucks for fans, but it makes sense from a business perspective, same with Joshua vs. Miller to build Joshua's US platform. Taking interim fights would build the rematch even more. One thing I will say is that if you think Wilder will fight Joshua in the next year, you'll be sorely disappointed.

he doesn't like fury he is biased

Champion97's picture

Me? With all due respect my friend, you are the one who is biased, you do not like Joshua, you have made that perfectly clear, you like Fury, you have made that perfectly clear. I don't think I am biased, as I said, Fury is the most talented heavyweight, phenomenal powers of recovery, warrior, but at the moment, Wilder is pushing the fight, Fury is not.

I'm biased but I think your too because you give to munch credit to wilder talking

Champion97's picture

I appreciate your honesty, I try not to be biased, if you think I'm biased, ok, but I am not saying Wilder is better than Fury, not saying he has more courage than Fury because he is pushing for the fight, what I'm saying is, Wilder wants the immediate rematch and Fury doesn't, and given that Fury complicated the negotiations and now the fight won't be next, you can't blame me for that, but also, and this is not a criticism of Fury or praising Wilder, Wilder needs the fight more than Fury even though he has the belt, because he seems to have more options, he is the bigger draw, and the consensus is that Fury won and got robbed, I am not necessarily giving Wilder credit for talking, but I'm saying he wants, needs that rematch, next, Fury doesn't. I think Wilder hits harder than Fury thought, and Fury is intelligent, understands that two Wilder fights in a row could be very damaging, he thinks ahead, spin it however you want, I say I am not biased, believe me or not, what I am saying is, Fury does not want Wilder, next, at the moment, he is proud of himself, is more than happy to settle for the controversial 'robbery' draw, isn't 'ducking', but knows he would be wise in terms of doing what is best for him, not to fight Wilder again and risk what he has rebuilt for himself.

Champion97's picture

First of all, I was talking to SalTnutZ1, I am careful about talking to a wind up merchant like you on certain topics, but I'll answer your questions.

Because he felt he needed those fights, it isn't that he is too scared to fight Wilder, I did not say that, it is that he believes it is smart not to, that's what I am saying, don't get over sensitive just because you have a grudge against Matchroom and love Fury, I did not call him a pussy, coward, no stupid stuff, I didn't say he was 'ducking' I said, he does not want Wilder next, because at this point, he doesn't need ot the way he did before, he would probably be a favourite in the rematch, wasn't the first time, wasn't against Klitschko, I'm saying, Fury would rather fight on ESPN, be the 'interim' champion, have every bit as high status as Joshua, Wilder, without a belt, but be considered the lineal champion, be known as the guy who got robbed, than put himself through that again against Wilder, risk getting knocked out by a fighter who only needs one great shot to knock his lights out.

I literally just said that, Fury is a warrior, but he is also a smart man, he is a busimessman, without praising him or criticising him, he will not put the fans' entertainment before his career. Well, you just said it, great, so, stop making out like Joshua is bad for boxing while Fury is just smart, when they are doing essentially the same thing. I know, I don't think he is necessarily trying to build the rematch, and I would not be surprised if he took the Wilder fight further down the line, but I think he would rather fight Joshua, still, what I'm saying is, Fury doesn't want Wilder, next, and the only things I criticise him for is manipulating the fans, conducting himself the way he does, and picking such a bad time to sign with Top Rank, not a big deal, but still, I don't see how letting the negotions get far, getting the fans' hopes up, is fair.

You need to stop with the Joshua and Hearn bashing man, it's getting annoying, there is no real reason they won't make the biggest fight in boxing, sooner or later. The fight may or may not happen, you cannot rule it out.

I don't like this attitude from joshua espacialy because he helds 3 major belts I'm a wind up menchant but I don't want to hurt anyone so don't worry

Champion97's picture

Which attitude? You're not hurting anyone, you do not have to like Joshua, respect my opinion, I'll respect yours, all there is to it.

fury does the same thing than Joshua but joshua helds 3 of 4 major belts he paralyses the weight class

Champion97's picture

NF82, I don't see how that means Joshua should be criticised, if the fact that he has the belts is the only real difference, and let's ask ourselves why he hs the belts, while he was beating Klitschko, Takam, Fury was very, very heavy, inactive, whilst calling active champions dossers, when at that time, he was by definition, the dosser if there is one. Joshua and Fury are both smart, but it isn't fair that just because he has the belts, Joshua is known is boring whilst Fury gets a pass, because if you agree they do the same thing, it is hard to criticise one but not the other.

Gold's picture

Are you talking to me Champ? I have made it clear I'm not speaking about Joshua with you ever again. I was replying to Salt.

Champion97's picture

Yes, I thought you were talking to me, if you do not want to talk to me about Joshua and Matchroom, fine by me.

Gold's picture

Sorry, in the future I will make it more clear who I am responding to.

SalTnutZ1's picture

I don't think scared, but with the big check and new found public fondness, more risk adverse is what I'd say. I thought he won as well, but if you know that you were on the brink of being KOed, and now really don't have to take the risk, but are selling it to the fans like you'll rip up your deal if the fight isn't made next, and like Wilder would be the one letting politics get in the way(the day he signs a deal that he knows will delay the fight) is pretty shitty. If I was Wilder, I'd go ahead and tick Breazeale off the list, and target the AJ fight. It may not happen next(AJ and Wilder in the Fall), but I certainly wouldn't let Fury pull this, and reward him with a shot in the Fall. And with Wilder having bullshit happen right before Povetkin(which he was willing to travel for as well), Ortiz, and now Fury, you couldn't blame him for being upset and trying to ice Fury. And really, I don't think taking a fight against Pulev or Rivas on ESPN+ does much of anything to build his US brand bigger than it is now, so I disagree that it is a good business move.

Gold's picture

I definitely don't think it is fair to say that he is risk averse, if Fury is really getting paid what they say he is getting paid presumably to fight guys at Parker's level or below and then to set up a rematch with Wilder, he would have been an idiot not to take the deal. Both Wilder and Joshua were aligned with and had the backing of major networks, and that gives them additional leverage. Fury didn't and now he does. I don't think Wilder cares as much as you are making it out that he does. ESPN is still the single largest sports network in the United States, and for how much they are paying Fury, they will have him on their major shows like First Take that tons of casual sports fans watch. If the rematch does happen at the end of the year, I will personally guarantee it will do better financially than the first match and "reward" Wilder and Fury. Doesn't mean I like the fact they are doing this, but this happens across promotions and throughout weight classes.

SalTnutZ1's picture

Have you seen Wilder’s Twitter reaction to it? Lol. May be a show, I don’t think so, but he doesn’t seem too pleased by it all.

Fury 4 days ago, “I will fight anyone in world boxing,
Don’t use boxing politics as an excuse not to challenge me the lineal heavyweight champ! @BronzeBomber @espn @frankwarren_tv @BobArum”

Wilder today in response
“You sorry muthafucka. We knew you only said this bec you knew you wasn’t fighting me next. #CloutChaser you requested a warm-up fight first. I don’t blame you tho, I probably would too if I saw my brains splashed all over the canvas. #Timberrr #Bih #RunHoeRun #NoSmokeWanted”

Gold's picture

Regardless of how he feels now if he freezes Fury out I'll be shocked.

SalTnutZ1's picture

I hope you’re right, and he does make it for the Fall, but anytime some silly shit like this happens, it’s irritating and can always leave a strong chance that the fight never happens. As a Wilder fan, too, I’m irritated for him that this is the 3rd big fight for him that fell through, all of which would have been lucrative and resume/brand builders, and pullouts/shenanigans happened suddenly, forcing him to take lesser fights and getting shit on like he hasn’t gone after tough opponents. And for Fury to put out some of his comments like it would somehow be Wilder to blame should it fall through, just ruins a bit of the credit he’d built back up and makes him seem a bit less honest and genuine, which he’s seemed to establish over the the past couple months.

Gold's picture

For Wilder, the main problem is that he's 33, and his style relies a lot on his athleticism, specifically his hand and foot speed. He probably only has 1-2 years left of his prime. I don't necessarily have a problem with the way PBC has matched him but when he was a Golden Boy fighter he should have been more aggressively matched. To be fair, he had his opportunity versus Fury and arguably shouldn't have escaped with his title. If he would have won by KO it would have been a resume/brand builder. This is all just posturing, personally, I don't really give it much thought when guys go off on twitter and such.

Champion97's picture

Gold, this is a non-Matchroom related topic.

Good point about Wilder relying on his athleticism, his severe hand issues aren't getting any better as he gets older either, but on the other hand, his best attribute is the attribute which stays with you for the longest, when he is slower in hand and foot, has less stamina, slower recovery, he will still be a devastating puncher.

Gold's picture

He will still have good pop because he's a natural puncher but it is different because he generates a lot of his power with his hand and foot speed. It isn't like George Foreman where he is going to seriously hurt someone with a short inside punch.

Champion97's picture

I don't agree with that, because power on a certain level is something you can or can't naturally generate, and loss of speed won't take away that natural ability to generate power from his legs, but I do agree in that loss of hand and foot speed might make it harfer for him to use the power he naturally carries, and although against Ortiz, the knockdowns were set up and executed by defensive punching, they were explosive knockdowns, the second knockdown against Fury, that right hand, that wasn't the fastest shot, it was just clean, well timed, Fury didn't know where it was coming from, and against Szpilka, that was a short shot, was neither a wild swing or a fast, explosive punch.

SalTnutZ1's picture

Now that Wilder is likely on his way to DAZN, think he may freeze out Fury now?

Champion97's picture

Possible, but that is Fury freezing himself out as much as anything, Hearn has offered to work with Fury before, Fury always tells him to f*** off, so if Wilder signs with Hearn, great, we will probably see Joshua vs Wilder, which would likely be a more entertaining fight than Wilder vs Fury, simply because Fury is by far the best defensive fighter, best defensive heavyweight who has ever lived by a fair bit if you ask me, and it is one thing to get up and recover from a knockdown, but having the power to turn the tables on your opponent is something else, and that is one thing Joshua can do against Wilder which Fury couldn't.

Here is what should happen in the heavyweight division, Breazeale vs Kownacki, both PBC, both ranked high with the WBC, neither worthy of a shot just yet, both not too far off, they should fight in an eliminator, has that happened, maybe we could have seen Wilder vs Whyte, the winner gets the winner of Joshua vs Miller.

Gold's picture

Hearn does not run DAZN he is just another promoter on the network. Wilder will not be signing with Hearn if he goes to DAZN. He hates Hearn just like Fury does.

Champion97's picture

I understand, his reputation and name makes him seem to have more power than he has, but given that he runs Matchroom, Matchroom USA fighters fight on DAZN, and Wilder is reportedly meeting with Hearn next week, certainly can't hurt Joshua vs Wilder. He hates Hearn as well, but more justifiably, Hearn has a better chance of making a deal with Wilder than Fury. Fury is a warrior, I've always said it, he is also potentially the best by some distance, I've always said it, but he's also happy where he is, satisfies with his performance against Wilder, is more than happy to convince everyone the Joshua fight can't happen, whereas Wilder and Joshua want to each other.

Gold's picture

Right, seems like Joshua vs. Wilder is surprisingly back on the table.

Champion97's picture

I hope it happens, and I think it will, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I believe it is the best option for both fighters, both fighters need the fight, and the gain from the fight is better than the gain of any other fight, the winner is undisputed. I am convinced Joshua vs Wilder would be more entertaining than all 3 world level heavyweight fights we've seen in the last 2 years which have been entertaining, because both can hurt each other, neither are defensively good enough or have style to make it the negative fight Fury made it against Wilder for 8 rounds.

Gold's picture

Yeah for the fans it is stylistically the best fight possible out of the current top matchups.

Champion97's picture

Salt, I'm 100% in agreement with you on Fury. People need to stop idiolising Fury as a person, he can't be honest and genuine because he contradicts himself everyday, he is a nutcase and always has been, nice guy one day who wants to inspire people, next day, every other boxer on the planet is on PEDs. I think Gold makes a good point in that in the long run, it will help the rematch if anything, but I still agree with you, the rematch should have been next after the draw, and it is poor that Fury is trying to shift the blame onto Wilder.

Champion97's picture

Salt, if only Hearn had made that offer to Wilder after Fury had sabotaged the immediate rematch, but before they made Joshua vs Miller, then maybe we would be getting the fight we all want to see, next.

Champion97's picture

Gold.

I think he is risk averse when the risk is not 100% necessary in his mind, and Fury has built his reputation by getting up off the deck against Wilder after boxing well, is known as the guy who got robbed, in his mind, he doesn't need to take that risk again, he knows Wilder is capable of knocking him out cold, a rematch is risky, it is also potentially damaging, he knows he has the guts to face Wilder, he is being smart before brave, spin ot however you like, but he doesn't want to fight Wilder again for a while.

I think Wilder's career depends on the rematch, the negotiations with a certain promoter will ho nowhere until they can agree that Wilder deserves what he said he does, and that promoter did say Wilder gets more money if he beats Fury, so Wilder needs the rematch.

Gold's picture

I think this is similar logic to what many said after the first Canelo vs. Golovkin fight, that Golovkin was robbed, and he doesn't need to take the fight again. However, the rematch still happened because it made the most financial sense for both parties. I think that's what will play out here. A rematch is worse for Wilder than Fury. I have already explained why, but it is Heavyweight and Wilder has a huge punch, anyone that faces Wilder can be knocked out.

I think it does to an extent, it settles business and builds his leverage as you said. That's another reason to think the fight can still happen even with co-promotion later this year.

Champion97's picture

To an extent, but Fury is much younger than Golovkin, isn't pushed for time like Golovkin was. And overall, I agree with what you say, you can't guranatee the boxer beats the puncher in the rematch, but it does seem highly likely.

I respect your opinion I was juust questioning

Anyone think that Fury could be waiting on a Joshua fight?

it's possible

MINIMaxBOXING's picture

Boxing was so much more simple when Fury was retired.