I'd agree on weight cuts getting harder with age being the more of a factor in this case if Canelo had stayed at 160, but given he has gone to 175, is campaigning at 168 now, he's strategically choosing to bulk up, and he isn't moving up because he has to. We had a detailed debate about the significance about ring weights and how low a weight a fighter can make, I know a lot of the difference in water retention, I exaggerated when I said ring weights didn't mean much, but I still think some fighters fight heavier than others aside from their size, you've said yourself Hurd is massive, I heard he fought weighing 159, we know Pacquiao is very small at 147, he was 152 against Mayweather, so I just can't put too much stock in it. I definitely think some fighters who are the same natural size can strategically cut or build to different weights throughout their careers, as well as being small at a weight above their natural size like Pacquiao.
I appreciate the time you've taken to back up your argument, but I think the disagreement is on too small an aspect, and in the grand scheme of things, we don't disagree at all, I think Canelo would back Spence up very easily without needing to use his footwork like be does at 160-175, Canelo can't make 154 now, 160 would be too much of a jump for Spence, so I don't like the fight, I wouldn't be surprised if it happened though. I compared the fight to Golovkin vs Brook, I don't know if you already knew, but Golovkin offered to fight Brook at 155, and Brook declined the offer, very stupid in my opinion, I don't think he'd have beat Golovkin at 155, but he'd have had a better shot than at 160.
I think people have different definitions of natural size in boxing. In Crawford's case, we agree, that he is big enough to be more or less as dominant at 147 as at 140.
I think that's fair, Ennis shouldn't have beaten him that easily given what we've seen from him in the past. I think James vs Stanionis would be a 50/50 fight, and an interesting fight, I don't know if there would be enough to gain for both fighters, but PBC should be able to put both in good fights. There are a lot of good fights I want to catch up on, Stanionis vs Dulorme is one of them, did you see it?
Let's accept the uncertainty on it, and leave it where it is, like with Froch vs Groves, we'll never know if Froch would have got a decisive finish if the referee hadn't stopped it, but Froch put an end to the argument in the rematch, Joshua did the same.
I think it's a 50/50 fight, I'm rooting for Parker, but although Andy Lee might be potentially a good trainer, we know McGirt is a great trainer. Do you mean the accusations of being involved in drugs importation? I read that, I don't think that will be a factor provided the stress of being under investigation doesn't affect his training or mentality in the ring. The timing benefits Chisora down to the ground, 2 months is not long enough between big fights, I know you're not a believer in 2 fights a year being necessary, you might be ring, but 2 months is not long enough, the Fa fight was quite tough for Parker physically, but it's more the preparation for a different style, and it's not only his first fight with a new trainer, who he hired not because he was recommend by Fury, but he hasn't been training with him 2 months. 6 months is the perfect time for Chisora in my opinion, it's enough time for him to rest between camps, and have a good, long camp. If Chisora's miles have caught up to him, which is very possible, I think Parker stops him, but if not, I think it will be a close decision either way.
Great overall, there were a few great fights, some disappointing fights, but Charlo vs Castano is a great fight, I agree that's the best fight, Nery vs Figueroa is a good one, and Barrios vs Davis is a very interesting fight, I think Barrios has a good shot to win that, and there are a few others. I'm surprised Charlo couldn't get a better fight than Montiel, he seems to be a puncher, but a one trick pony.
I think what you are saying about Beterbiev backing him up could be right, I'm not sure Beterbiev's style will be as tricky for Smith to time but it's an interesting comparison because Beterbiev is better technically and has good variety but he isn't unorthodox like Vlasov. Do you think Parker is at risk of losing versus Chisora? Did you hear all of the out of the ring stuff with Parker? That and having a new trainer could hurt his performance as well. I think Chisora is a decent matchup for Parker especially at this point in Chisora's career but given the circumstances with Parker it wouldn't shock me if he put in a flat performance.
What did you think of the Showtime schedule that was released? I'm interested in most of the fights. It will be interesting to see how Nery does now that he's away from the Reynoso's, I don't think their style was good for him in his last performance. Many of the other fights are interesting but the most interesting to me is Jermell Charlo vs. Castano, I think Castano has a real chance in that fight. I don't know if I'd pick him as the favorite but he has good experience now, good amateur background, great output and punches in combination. He'll make it hard for Jermell to win rounds.
Haha, well he said it was a punch from the gods so I don't know about that. It's not that I don't believe him because I think he specifically is a liar, but because they are in a business where it can be good to be deluded. I think the pre-fight stuff can as easily be explained by personal issues or the change of pace at MSG in the US, but we will never know for sure.
No, because he's always been a big rehydrator and went up with age whereas Spence hasn't. I think what you are saying about what weight a fighter can make when they are disciplined and don't try to bulk up can be true but in the day before the weigh-in era, it isn't true in many cases in practice because they can physically only do big weight cuts for so long. I think Hurd is a big 154 but he made the IBF rehydration limit like Spence, so he can't be doing that huge of a cut. Higa versus Rosales was a case of bad promotion trying to turn around a fighter too quickly, but I get the point you are making, I just don't think it applies to Spence vs. Canelo
Spence hasn't fought above 147 in any notable capacity, he fought once versus Van Heerden at 156 1/2 but hasn't fought above 150 otherwise which I assume were just catchweight fights earlier in his career. In addition, he fought at 69kg for many years in his amateur career, which supports that he isn't someone who can move up in weight classes easily, his weight has stayed similar for a long time now. My point is that Canelo is more than one weight class above him, which makes it worse for the fight to happen.
Yeah it is their natural weight class if they are making the weight even if it is a big cut, if they are inconsistent in being able to make the weight it isn't. Hopkins was actually an example of someone bulking up successfully, he wasn't a big 160, just a tall one. Yeah, what you said about Crawford is what I mean, he's become a natural welterweight.
I need to score the Ennis fight, I watched it at the time but didn't, I was impressed by him but disappointed by Lipinets. Stanionis seems like his level is somewhat limited but he will be an interesting fighter to watch because he walks forward and has good volume.
Herring vs Frampton
beaunuitmem - Frampton. Late. 0
Champion58 - Frampton. SD. 0
Champion97 - Herring. UD. 2
Chris M95 - Herring. UD. 2
Gold - Herring. UD. 2
Jarod Killian - Herring. UD. 2
MINIMaxBOXING - Frampton. UD. 0
SalTnutZ1 - Draw. 0
Akhmadaliev vs Iwasa
beaunuitmem - Akhmadaliev. UD. 2
Champion58 - Akhmadaliev. Late. 4
Champion97 - Akhmadaliev. Mid. 5
Chris M95 - Akhmadaliev. Mid. 5
Gold - Akhmadaliev. Late. 4
Jarrod Killian - Akhmadaliev. Mid. 5
MINIMaxBOXING - Akhmadaliev. Late. 4
SalTnutZ1 - Akhmadaliev. Late. 4
Ennis vs Lipinets
beaunuitmem - Ennis. Late. 4
Champion58 - Ennis. Late. 4
Champion97 - Ennis. Late. 4
Chris M95 - Ennis. UD. 2
Gold - Ennis. UD. 2
Jarrod Killian - Ennis. UD. 2
MINIMaxBOXING - Ennis. Mid. 5
SalTnutZ1 - Ennis. UD. 2
Dulorme vs Stanionis
beaunuitmem - Stanionis. UD. 5
Champion58 - Stanionis. UD. 5
Champion97 - Stanionis. UD. 5
Chris M95 - Stanionis. Late. 2
Gold - Stanionis. UD. 5
Jarrod Killian - Stanionis. UD. 5
MINIMaxBOXING - Stanionis. Late. 2
SalTnutZ1 - Stanionis. UD. 5
Benn vs Vargas
beaunuitmem - Benn. UD. 2
Champion58 - Benn. Mid. 4
Champion97 - Benn. Mid. 4
Chris M95 - Benn. UD. 2
Gold - Benn. UD. 2
Jarrod Killian - Benn. Mid. 4
MINIMaxBOXING - Benn. Mid. 4
SalTnutZ1 - Benn. UD. 2
Courtenay vs Bridges
beaunuitmem - Courtenay. UD. 5
Champion58 - Courtenay. UD. 5
Champion97 - Courtenay. UD. 5
Chris M95 - Courtenay. Mid. 2
Gold - Courtenay. UD. 5
Jarrod Killian - Courtenay. UD. 5
MINIMaxBOXING - Courtenay. UD. 5
SalTnutZ1 - Courtenay. UD. 5
Smith Jr vs Vlasov
beaunuitmem - Smith. UD. 4
Champion58 - Smith. Late. 2
Champion97 - Smith. UD. 4
Chris M95 - Smith. Early. 2
Gold - Smith. Late. 2
Jarrod Killian - Smith. UD. 4
MINIMaxBOXING - Vlasov. UD. 0
SalTnutZ1 - Smith. Late. 2
Prograis vs Redkack
beaunuitmem - Prograis. Mid. 5
Champion58 - Prograis. Mid. 5
Champion97 - Prograis. Mid. 5
Chris M95 - Prograis. UD. 2
Gold - Prograis. Late. 4
Jarrod Killian - Prograis. Mid. 5
MINIMaxBOXING - Prograis. Mid. 5
SalTnutZ1 - Prograis. Late. 4
Andrade vs Williams
beaunuitmem - Andrade. UD. 5
Champion58 - Andrade. Late. 2
Champion97 - Andrade. UD. 5
Chris M95 - Andrade. Late. 2
Gold - Andrade. UD. 5
Jarrod Killian - Andrade. Late. 2
MINIMaxBOXING - Andrade. UD. 5
SalTnutZ1 - Williams. Late. 0
Gongora vs Pearson
beaunuitmem - Gongora. Mid. 5
Champion58 - Gongora. Mid. 5
Champion97 - Gongora. Mid. 5
Chris M95 - Gongora. UD. 2
Gold - Gongora. Late. 4
Jarrod Killian - Pearson. UD. 0
MINIMaxBOXING - Gongora. UD. 2
SalTnutZ1 - Gongora. Mid. 5
Majidov vs Fedosov
beaunuitmem - Majidov. Early. 0
Champion58 - Fedosov. UD. 2
Champion97 - Majidov. Late. 0
Chris M95 - Majidov. UD. 0
Gold - Majidov. Mid. 0
Jarrod Killian - Majidov. Mid. 0
MINIMaxBOXING - Majidov. Mid. 0
SalTnutZ1 - Majidov. Mid. 0
Shiro vs Hisada
beaunuitmem
Champion58
Champion97 - Shiro. Mid
Chris M95
Gold - Shiro. Late
Jarrod Killian - Shiro. UD
MINIMaxBOXING
SalTnutZ1 - Shiro. Late
Navarrete vs Christopher Diaz
beaunuitmem
Champion58
Champion97
Chris M95
Gold - Navarrete. Late
Jarrod Killian - Navarrete. Late
MINIMaxBOXING
SalTnutZ1 - Navarrete. UD
Bentley vs Cash
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Champion58
Champion97
Chris M95
Gold - Cash. Late
Jarrod Killian - Bentley. UD
MINIMaxBOXING
SalTnutZ1 - Cash. UD
Conlan vs Baluta
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Champion58
Champion97
Chris M95
Gold - Conlan. UD
Jarrod Killian - Conlan. Late
MINIMaxBOXING
SalTnutZ1 - Conlan. UD
Mthalane vs Edwards
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Champion58
Champion97
Chris M95
Gold - Edwards. UD
Jarrod Killian - Edwards. UD
MINIMaxBOXING
SalTnutZ1 - Edwards. MD
I'd agree on weight cuts getting harder with age being the more of a factor in this case if Canelo had stayed at 160, but given he has gone to 175, is campaigning at 168 now, he's strategically choosing to bulk up, and he isn't moving up because he has to. We had a detailed debate about the significance about ring weights and how low a weight a fighter can make, I know a lot of the difference in water retention, I exaggerated when I said ring weights didn't mean much, but I still think some fighters fight heavier than others aside from their size, you've said yourself Hurd is massive, I heard he fought weighing 159, we know Pacquiao is very small at 147, he was 152 against Mayweather, so I just can't put too much stock in it. I definitely think some fighters who are the same natural size can strategically cut or build to different weights throughout their careers, as well as being small at a weight above their natural size like Pacquiao.
I appreciate the time you've taken to back up your argument, but I think the disagreement is on too small an aspect, and in the grand scheme of things, we don't disagree at all, I think Canelo would back Spence up very easily without needing to use his footwork like be does at 160-175, Canelo can't make 154 now, 160 would be too much of a jump for Spence, so I don't like the fight, I wouldn't be surprised if it happened though. I compared the fight to Golovkin vs Brook, I don't know if you already knew, but Golovkin offered to fight Brook at 155, and Brook declined the offer, very stupid in my opinion, I don't think he'd have beat Golovkin at 155, but he'd have had a better shot than at 160.
I think people have different definitions of natural size in boxing. In Crawford's case, we agree, that he is big enough to be more or less as dominant at 147 as at 140.
I think that's fair, Ennis shouldn't have beaten him that easily given what we've seen from him in the past. I think James vs Stanionis would be a 50/50 fight, and an interesting fight, I don't know if there would be enough to gain for both fighters, but PBC should be able to put both in good fights. There are a lot of good fights I want to catch up on, Stanionis vs Dulorme is one of them, did you see it?
Let's accept the uncertainty on it, and leave it where it is, like with Froch vs Groves, we'll never know if Froch would have got a decisive finish if the referee hadn't stopped it, but Froch put an end to the argument in the rematch, Joshua did the same.
I think it's a 50/50 fight, I'm rooting for Parker, but although Andy Lee might be potentially a good trainer, we know McGirt is a great trainer. Do you mean the accusations of being involved in drugs importation? I read that, I don't think that will be a factor provided the stress of being under investigation doesn't affect his training or mentality in the ring. The timing benefits Chisora down to the ground, 2 months is not long enough between big fights, I know you're not a believer in 2 fights a year being necessary, you might be ring, but 2 months is not long enough, the Fa fight was quite tough for Parker physically, but it's more the preparation for a different style, and it's not only his first fight with a new trainer, who he hired not because he was recommend by Fury, but he hasn't been training with him 2 months. 6 months is the perfect time for Chisora in my opinion, it's enough time for him to rest between camps, and have a good, long camp. If Chisora's miles have caught up to him, which is very possible, I think Parker stops him, but if not, I think it will be a close decision either way.
Great overall, there were a few great fights, some disappointing fights, but Charlo vs Castano is a great fight, I agree that's the best fight, Nery vs Figueroa is a good one, and Barrios vs Davis is a very interesting fight, I think Barrios has a good shot to win that, and there are a few others. I'm surprised Charlo couldn't get a better fight than Montiel, he seems to be a puncher, but a one trick pony.
I think what you are saying about Beterbiev backing him up could be right, I'm not sure Beterbiev's style will be as tricky for Smith to time but it's an interesting comparison because Beterbiev is better technically and has good variety but he isn't unorthodox like Vlasov. Do you think Parker is at risk of losing versus Chisora? Did you hear all of the out of the ring stuff with Parker? That and having a new trainer could hurt his performance as well. I think Chisora is a decent matchup for Parker especially at this point in Chisora's career but given the circumstances with Parker it wouldn't shock me if he put in a flat performance.
What did you think of the Showtime schedule that was released? I'm interested in most of the fights. It will be interesting to see how Nery does now that he's away from the Reynoso's, I don't think their style was good for him in his last performance. Many of the other fights are interesting but the most interesting to me is Jermell Charlo vs. Castano, I think Castano has a real chance in that fight. I don't know if I'd pick him as the favorite but he has good experience now, good amateur background, great output and punches in combination. He'll make it hard for Jermell to win rounds.
Haha, well he said it was a punch from the gods so I don't know about that. It's not that I don't believe him because I think he specifically is a liar, but because they are in a business where it can be good to be deluded. I think the pre-fight stuff can as easily be explained by personal issues or the change of pace at MSG in the US, but we will never know for sure.
No, because he's always been a big rehydrator and went up with age whereas Spence hasn't. I think what you are saying about what weight a fighter can make when they are disciplined and don't try to bulk up can be true but in the day before the weigh-in era, it isn't true in many cases in practice because they can physically only do big weight cuts for so long. I think Hurd is a big 154 but he made the IBF rehydration limit like Spence, so he can't be doing that huge of a cut. Higa versus Rosales was a case of bad promotion trying to turn around a fighter too quickly, but I get the point you are making, I just don't think it applies to Spence vs. Canelo
Spence hasn't fought above 147 in any notable capacity, he fought once versus Van Heerden at 156 1/2 but hasn't fought above 150 otherwise which I assume were just catchweight fights earlier in his career. In addition, he fought at 69kg for many years in his amateur career, which supports that he isn't someone who can move up in weight classes easily, his weight has stayed similar for a long time now. My point is that Canelo is more than one weight class above him, which makes it worse for the fight to happen.
Yeah it is their natural weight class if they are making the weight even if it is a big cut, if they are inconsistent in being able to make the weight it isn't. Hopkins was actually an example of someone bulking up successfully, he wasn't a big 160, just a tall one. Yeah, what you said about Crawford is what I mean, he's become a natural welterweight.
I need to score the Ennis fight, I watched it at the time but didn't, I was impressed by him but disappointed by Lipinets. Stanionis seems like his level is somewhat limited but he will be an interesting fighter to watch because he walks forward and has good volume.
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