The Rematch: Andre Ward vs. Sergey Kovalev II Scorecard by SalTnutZ1

Submitted by SalTnutZ1 on Thu, 2018-08-02 06:14

scorecard by SALTNUTZ1
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
ANDRE WARD
9
9
9
10
10
10
10
67
SERGEY KOVALEV
10
10
10
9
9
9
9
66

Fight:

The Rematch: Andre Ward vs. Sergey Kovalev II



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Andre Ward

Sergey Kovalev



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Champion97's picture

Champion97

Thu, 2018-08-02 08:31

How highly do you rate Andre Ward historically?

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Thu, 2018-08-02 12:18

I mean, it is a tough one. His pedigree, accomplishments, and resume say top 10-20 All-time, at least for me, maybe top 3 at Super Middle ever. But eye test, I think I saw him struggle against some fighters at times that I feel he shouldn't have, and other than Kovalev and Dawson, I think he could have taken on some tougher fights and proved more. His wins against Kessler, Bika, Froch, and AA were good, but I think we had already seen the best of those guys by that time, so I don't know that he beat the best version of any of those guys. I think he won a few controversial ones, including the Kovalev stoppage, which I think was unwarranted, so that hurts him to a degree in terms of how people view his accomplishments. Not a ton, but takes a bit of shine off his resume, for me at least. He was able to come into Super Middle and get titles, just missing Calzaghe, who I'm not sure he would have beat. So, all said, I think he was really good, had a lot of talent, and did enough to secure his place in history. But, had he been a little more active(I know injuries were some of it, but not all), and taken a few more chances(fight with GGG, Lightheavy defense against Beterbiev just off the top), he would have risen even further in terms of all time greats in my eyes.

You?

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Thu, 2018-08-02 12:28

I agree for the most part, I think he struggled, because he fought with certain tactics whoch were to break down his opponents, but he always won, I don't think Kovalev beat him the first time at all, he dominated the second half. Ward didn't get as many opportunities as ideal, and fights against Stevenson, Beterbiev, would have been good to see, if he'd cleaned out the division, but he retired at a good time, after beating Kovalev, unifying. I think he would have beaten Calzaghe comfortably to be honest. I think the Golovkin fight was a bad idea once Ward moved up, it was never looking likely, but Beterbiev would have been a good fight, and Stevenson as well.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Thu, 2018-08-02 12:37

I think he just edged out Kovalev that first fight, too. That second was very competitive, and I thought stopped way too quick, as Kovalev wasn't hurt enough for that, especially given his history(wasn't a shot fighter with a lot of damage, and wasn't taking bad shots to the head). Yeah, Stevenson and Beterbiev were the ones at Light Heavy that I think he should have taken, and I think would have won both. I don't think Adonis had/has any real interest in unifying, so don't know that he would have ever entertained that one. Calzaghe was always one of those guys that I thought was going to lose, then he'd pull out a huge win, so I don't know; I always underestimated him. That would have been a fun fight to see had the timelines worked out.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Thu, 2018-08-02 12:46

The stoppage can be seen from a few different angles, Paulie didn't like it one bit, hadn't been down, hadn't taken a long beating, wasn't being hit with consecutive, clean shots, but on the other hand, he sat down as it was stopped, he wanted out, no referee wants to see a fighter in there when he is mentally coming apart, those body shots seemed to trouble him a real lot, Kovalev wasn't fighting back, and seemed vulnerable when he was hit, Ward was going to beat him real bad I think. I don't know either, but you are probably right, we have to give Stevenson credit, but none of us liked him calling out Froch and Hopkins instead of Ward and Kovalev. Yeah I agree, sort of like Danny Garcia, Billy Joe Saunders, have a few close wins, get underestimated, improve with a better opponent, but I just think it would have been a different story against Ward.

Who do you think Wilder should fight next?

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Thu, 2018-08-02 13:12

I think Kovalev ducked down, as he either thought he was hit low again, or was trying to sell it as such, and it cost him, as that was when the ref jumped in.

If that Fury fight is there to make, and WBC is going to give him an exemption on his mandatory through the end of 2019 for it and the AJ fight to happen, then I believe those should be his next two opponents. I think it is too early by at least one, maybe two fights for Fury to make that much of a step back up in competition, but I'm not mad at either, because there isn't a bigger fight that either could make with AJ tied up. Both can sell a fight, and both have claims on the title(WBC and Lineal), so the implications are huge. You?

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Thu, 2018-08-02 14:06

Well it was hard to tell, but I think he was in a lot more distress than that, he was really hurt to the body, the low shots were to the leg, and weren't hurting him like the clean body shots were, and you could see the way the right hand to the head knocked the stuffing out of him, he was gassed, the body shots were killing him, I think he was bricking it.

Well from the point of view of Wilder, fight Fury soon as possible, I hope Fury gets beat, so I hope the fight happens this year, Fury is a scumbag. Let's hope Wilder vs Fury happens, would be a great fight. If Fury wasn't the scumbag he is, and we were advising him, then absolutely, after Seferi and Pianeta, his level is too low, and the inactivity, and the substance abuse, obesity, all that, still a factor, 2 might not quite be enough in themselves, but no, Fury, back in shape, still only 30, with his activity back, is still a threat, still has the most talent the heavyweight division as seen since Ali (in my opinion), and it is still some fight!

I hope Joshua vs Wilder happens, but can they make a deal?, it always seems to fall apart, Hearn and Wilder always go to war, Wilder's team could get more involved, why is Wilder doing his own handling and managing?

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Thu, 2018-08-02 15:20

I think Fury has size, and a lot of skills, too. He is slicker than owl shit, as my grandpa said. But, I wonder if he can hurt Wilder enough to get his respect. Ortiz got to him as a skilled, fast handed fighter, I don't think Fury has that same skill level with his hands. I think Fury is slick on his feet and awkward, but so is Wilder, and I think he has the greatest equalizer in boxing with that power. Natural skills department, Fury all the way, but power, athleticism, momentum, and will are all on Wilder's side. I think he sparks Fury personally, could be early, too, and that is with me thinking Fury at his prime would be the number two heavy right now, ahead of AJ, and behind Wilder.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Thu, 2018-08-02 15:31

I like that simile, might be unsavoury, but it's a good one.

Fury isn't a puncher, but hw is a fighter, he has power, he can hurt you, punish you for a mistake, but I think his footwork, reactions, timing, defence, can give anyone problems. Well it's interesting, I think he does, he didn't do that much offensively against Klitschko, didn't really prove it that much, but I think Fury has as much hand skill as Ortiz, brilliant variety. Absolutely, but he is a great puncher, accuracy, timing, I mean, that counter right hand he hit Ortiz with in round 10 to start his finishing onslaught, the shot that finished Szpilka, Molina, that's method, precision, more than power, but his power is exceptional, there is no doubt about that. Well yeah, and just mentally really, Wilder is a real professional, professional beats unprofessional, consistent beats inconsistent, when has Wilder ever taken a long break? When have we ever seen him out of shape?, Wilder is a disciplined athlete, Fury is a determined fighter, a warrior, but his motivation comes and goes. I think so too, I think early as well. I think he would be ahead of both. You very confident Wilder would beat AJ if they fought? Because I would struggle to make a prediction.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Thu, 2018-08-02 15:43

I am, for a couple reasons. AJ is a very skilled fighter, with good variety and power, and a very classy fighter, there is no doubt. But I think his biggest problem against Wilder is that is he hittable. The same punch that Klitshcko caught and dropped him with, a punch he didn't see coming from a guy a lot slower, older, and less athletic than Wilder(not taking a thing from the legend that WK was, just where he was at the time and coming off how he looked against Fury), that same punch landing from Wilder puts him away in my estimate. And I think it would be more a matter or when than if. The second reason is, I just think Wilder wants it more. The same thing we said about him being unfettered and unmanaged, being motivated and driven like few other, I don't see that same want, fire, and hunger from AJ. Those little things can overcome skills sometimes. And I don't think AJ has ever fought anyone that big and awkward, which is the same reason I think Fury beats him, all things being equal. Final reason, I don't think AJ can land his best punch on Wilder, his upper cut, as easy as Wilder can land his, than overhand right. Vegas is leaning AJ right now, but they are also leaning GGG(which I agree with), so who knows who really should or shouldn't be the favorite.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Thu, 2018-08-02 16:39

There is no doubt, Wilder is much younger than Klitschko, and whilst Klitschko can punch, Wilder, power wise, is something else. I think Joshua has learned a lot since the Klitschko fight, on the other hand, with Wilder, it only takes one, and Joshua doesn't have a good chin. Well I'm not sure about that, could Wilder land with that much authority? I do! I mean, after getting up against Klitschko, pulling out the win like that, I can't question his desire. I definitely don't think Fury beats Joshua, I think Fury has more ways to frustrate Wilder, but Wilder might be able to trouble Fury more than Joshua can. I don't think there is anyone that big and awkward, but if anyone between Wilder and Joshua's opposition is what you are talking about, it is Klitschko, who has Wilder fought who is big and awkward. I don't agree with that, but to be honest, and I say this about every fighter, I think Wilder's overhand right is the easiest punch for a puncher to land, I think his screwshot left hook, straight right, uppercut, absolutely everything, I think a puncher can hurt you with every shot, a real puncher has power in both hands, and as for Joshua ajd the uppercut, I agree, but I think that is the worst head shot to take, but a jarring uppercut is not easy to land, because the chin of the opponent is down, but Joshua can time it perfectly, find the right, gap, opening, land that shot, but Joshua, like Wilder, can punch with power in every shot.

Time is on Joshua's side, and Wilder makes more mistakes, two reasons why I'm struggling to say he wins, but he is more durable I think, he has that combination of heavyweight advantages, middleweight output, and I think his variety, is just outstanding, he can land that left hook at different distances, Wilder is a special offensive fighter, tough, tough fight to predict

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Thu, 2018-08-02 16:59

I think Wilder will have bigger problems with guys like Ortiz, who could get under him and land hard combos that fluster him; he also may be the biggest guy physically who is also difficult to time that Wilder has been in with. He isn't an AJ/Wilder/Fury big, but is tall and heavy, strong. I don't think Fury beats AJ now, just in their prime, or had they fought right after Fury beat WK, I think Fury would have won, because I think AJ shares some of the same problems that WK did, too big to move at times, and not always great at cutting off the ring, while being vulnerable to guys who can fight well from the outside. I think examples of these problems, at least early in both fighters careers, were problems they had in different camps during sparring sessions, at least these things allegedly occurred, ha . Wilder was nearly sparked by Haye, who is smaller, slick, and powerful in his prime; similir-ish to an Ortiz. David Price KOed AJ in sparring allegedly, a big, awkward guy with some power from range and size.

With Wilder's mistakes, he can open up opportunities for himself, and that may make AJ fight very conservative. But he won't be able to win behind the jab, he'll have to engage to win that fight. The stylistic difference makes it a tough one, but everything in my gut says take the guy who wants it more and has the power and athletic advantage on his side.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Thu, 2018-08-02 14:52

I think Wilder is just one of those guys, right or wrong, that wants to be the one making the decisions on his career. No one looking to protect him would have let him take that Povetkin fight in that location. No one would have advised him fight a previously juiced, dangerous Ortiz. He just tries to carve his own path.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Thu, 2018-08-02 14:55

Can't argue with that, agree 100%, but in terms of making the Joshua fight, it isn't going well. You impressed by Ortiz against Cojanu or was Cojanu too poor for Ortiz to impress?

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Thu, 2018-08-02 15:02

I think Cojanu was essentially another Martz; a big guy to get hit. He needs a real next test to see if he'll get another shot, but I think no one wants to risk it against him, and he too may not take anything too large to potentially lose his spot in line.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Thu, 2018-08-02 15:20

He's aging, and he accumulated a lot of miles from the Wilder fight, but I wonder how much desire he really has left, just how well his body can have dealt with the toll taken by the Wilder beating. I wouldn't mind seeing Parker vs Ortiz

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Thu, 2018-08-02 15:20

He's aging, and he accumulated a lot of miles from the Wilder fight, but I wonder how much desire he really has left, just how well his body can have dealt with the toll taken by the Wilder beating. I wouldn't mind seeing Parker vs Ortiz

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Thu, 2018-08-02 15:26

I don't think Parker would take it though. He likely looks for an easier fight as a "get right" fight. I really don't see a clear path for Ortiz. Maybe against Breazeale? Whyte seems to be targeting a rematch with Chisora, or a fight with Charr to pick up another trinket belt. I hear Joe Joyce wants to fight him, but only after another fight or two. I don't see any of the other younger, up and comers coming after him either.

Champion97's picture

Champion97

Thu, 2018-08-02 15:37

Oh I think he would, that's the thing with Parker, he will fight anyone, he is very easy to make a fight with as well. Yeah true, he should get his activity back first. I love that fight, Joyce vs Ortiz would be brilliant. Well I think a lot of it is about age, now, for a start, Clint, I know you're 32, so I will be careful what I say! Haha, but no seriously, 32 is young for a heavyweight who is there already, but Joyce is what? 4-0? Forget weight, that's old for a prospect with only a few fights, Dubios is 20, Gorman is 22 I believe, Hrgovic is 26, these fighters have more time to use than Joyce, Joyce has to get a move on.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Thu, 2018-08-02 15:50

I'd love Hrgovic to get in there with Ortiz. If I'm his advisers, I'd say no, but I think he could win that fight and accelerate his timeline. He doesn't have to, just if he wanted to, I think he of all those guys is the most ready for a fight on that level.

SalTnutZ1's picture

SalTnutZ1

Thu, 2018-08-02 15:48

Haha. No worries, I know I'm still spry enough to spark a few, haha. But yeah, I think Joyce sees that, too. I think he is trying to accelerate with his move to the Sanchez camp, and can't help but to learn some things working with guys like GGG and Gassiev, things that can get him over the hump. He is old for a "prospect", much older than those guys you mentioned and we've spoken of before, so he does need to get on it! I just worry for him if he fights Ortiz, because I've not seen him have to move, pop in and out of a fight, something he'd need against Ortiz, but that is due to opposition as far as I know. If that is in him, that can be a good fight, if he stands there and tries to trade, I don't know how it would go for him. Have to dare to be great though.