Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

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Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

I'm pretty angry about the Wilder situation so I'm sure I'll regret this tomorrow but I'm venting anyway.
Hearn will take over American boxing within 5 years because PBC are too insular and Top Rank are incompetent.
I can't believe it's been accepted that PBC have somehow extricated themselves from the rest of the sport and they charge through the nose for it. Crossover fights are rarer then blue moons and when they do do it, they are always trying to pull a fast one, e.g., trying to get Tyson Fury when he wasn't fully fit, waiting for Pacman to fade in the Mayweather fight and same with Crawford now to cite some big examples. The $100 ppvs are insane and the growth of DAZN (whether people are signed up or not) will alert viewers to that fact, returns will fall and fighters on their roster will begin to look elsewhere (if they're not already).
Top Rank have the highest quality stable out there in my opinion; Lomachenko; Crawford; Inoue are still my top 3 fighters and they have all 3 but how stupid do you have to be, to be a promotion company that publicly complains about their own fighters' profiles!!!! Grade A idiocy. I'm not sure if that's worse than the current situation though. That arbitration win should have been set in stone and if there was any doubt at all, if they were truly representing Fury's interests they should have made a hell of a lot more noise about getting Fury out to fight last year. They didn't because they were too tight to spend in the short term to gain in the long term and it's backfired massively.
Add to that, that the quality of their programming is pretty amateur. The press conferences are painful, connection issues galore and leaving the camera running for 3 hours is proper amateur hour.
Not a Hearn fan but he's gonna have to try pretty hard to mess this up.

Discuss!

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

We're all disappointed about that, Joshua vs Fury is the fight every boxing fan wants to see, we've waited too long already, I remember in 2015, 2018 seemed like the ring time, but I just can't be angry personally, a contract was signed, Wilder obviously believes he can beat Fury, I can't blame him for not taking step aside money even though I don't particularly want to see the third fight, I think we can blame the pandemic, because if that hadn't started, the third fight would likely be over and done with by now. I don't think Top Rank are incompetent, but with Crawford's working relationship with Top Rank coming apart, it doesn't look great for them. I think PBC are doing what any promotion company would do in terms of not taking risks they don't need to take for themselves. The bottom line is, it's business, it's all about money, ideally, Crawford would sign with PBC. I haven't heard Arum complain about Lomachenko or Inoue's profiles, but I think his comments after Crawford vs Brook are a sign Top Rank isn't keeping Crawford. 100% agree on the Fury and Wilder situation, there's been a lot of miscommunication and a lack of resolve. I could see Hearn having ups and downs, making promises, delivering on them the majority of the time, but he will take his own chances that will backfire, at the moment, Matchroom seems very successful in the US, which isn't surprising, I agree it will expand, he's obviously working well with DAZN, with all the Matchroom cards they're broadcasting, and the Matchroom parting ways with Sky is a bigger loss for Sky, but I think Matchroom will have a lot of the same problems as Top Rank and PBC.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

Have to clarify; I don't blame Wilder or PBC one iota for the current situation, they've acted how everybody would have expected them to act; which just highlights the Top Rank incompetence further. I hate PBC for the reasons I stated earlier re: crossovers, which is also what makes them different from the other promotion companies. Why should Crawford have to sign for PBC? If Spence was with any other firm the fight would have been done a while ago.
Top Rank may not have complained about Inoue profile but they've only just signed him so even if they did they would be moaning about another firm rather than moaning about their own incompetence. Don't know the details but the rumours are Loma's not happy and I didn't even touch on the Lopez situation........no words on that one.

Hearn has had a lot of ups and downs already and there will undoubtedly be bigger ups and bigger downs but I'm not saying this because I rate Hearn, I just see him as the most professional one out of the 3 by a landslide (struggled hard not to say the only professional).

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

There are different ways of looking at what PBC are doing, you can see it as clever, unethical, but they are in the driving seat when it comes to fights like Spence vs Crawford, it's Top Rank who needed that fight more. He should if he can because that's where all the big fights are, hence where the money is, you've said you think Top Rank is incompetent, I don't agree but I see where you're coming from, I think Spence headlining PPV cards, surely making more a lot more money than Crawford, is an example of why it would make sense for Crawford to sign with PBC, that's all I'm getting at, I'm not saying Crawford is obliged to go to PBC or is staying with Top Rank to avoid Spence, I don't think that's the case, and it's PBC who have avoided the fight. I forgot about the situation with Lopez, good point, I believe that was just after Triller won the purse bid, Lopez threatened to leave Top Rank, I don't know what the situation is now, but that was very unwise from Arum.

You're saying all the other promoters are less professional than Hearn? I see where you're coming from, but when it comes to PBC, hating them and thinking they're stopping fights from happening, while I don't disagree, isn't a bad sign for them in terms of being successful, they don't risk their fighters against opponents in other promotional stables because they don't need to, and can make big fights in house, that being said, there have been in house PBC unifications that should have happened and didn't.

I should be clear, I'm not an expert on the business of boxing, I know a fair bit, but Gold will have more of a detailed response than me.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

lol vent away i wont stand in your way lol but got to point out some of glaring issues/mistakes that hits at you through the screen..cant see how anyone can lump Mayweather Pacquiao in with PBC,(either way Pacquiao side were more interested in making in house fights & chasing a Cotto rematch later more so than fighting Mayweather Jr 2011-2012,Cotto chose Mayweather Jr instead and then the man goes on and loses twice in 2012 smh) no getting around the fact that Crawford is pricing himself out asking 50 50 and with Fury that cuts both ways, speculating it aint out of the realms of possibility that Fury felt that WIlder was the more crude and the easier opponent to beat of the 2 HW champs
TR has those 3 skilled operators yes...that's still top heavy, they're struggling to keep Teofemo's interest, but i cant ignore they've got some top prospects some of whom im real interested in watching and cant wait for the Taylor Ramirez card...the undercard of Navaratte Diaz had some competitive buts in there as well, very well matched
but no getting around the fact that the Undisputed fight at 140 was poorly promoted for the most part and the production could be better too

with regards to DAZN & Matchroom taking over nah not in this decade or the next, assuming they do and my beliefs are such largely based on logistics, tv rights, and how fights have been distributed and televised among premium channels and how that subsidizes fighters
sure having more young American talent and rivals on dazn wouldnt hurt their cause...Tevin Farmer & Andrade dont resonate among casual fans & unlike Tevin, Andrade is elite talent and Hearn's been struggling to get him fights among top dazn middle and super middle weights, hope he manages to do a better job with Haney, most these fighters when they signed with dazn had an approx rate reported in the media for which they signed for, anybody heard any rates liked to Farmer's name when he signed with dazn? having up & coming US pros fighting on US undercard cards leading up to main events in the US like Canelo Saunders wouldnt hurt but just how deep are dazn pockets now following the pandemic situation and someone on here i believe it was Gold last year who posted couple brilliant articles on that topic detailing the hits dazn might be taking given their free spending nature prior to the covid situation consisting of reckless moves and losses Hearn wasnt able to cover...one that comes to mind was the overpaying Mikey Garcia 7 mil in a smaller room than SPence Garcia hoping for success with the Hispanic fight base in Texas and that event underperformed and that's putting it mildly

matchroom may have a way in on the 147 scene tho...Jaron Ennis just settled lawsuit with his promoter and someone i trust says he could be headed to matchroom & dazn provided they can dish out cash & everyone knows about Crawford disgruntled situation at TR which could help their cause for making a move at him for that fight on dazn, one small step from Ennis one giant leap for Eddie

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

:-) Ta for being the sounding board. Like therapy.
We'll agree to disagree on Crawford pricing himself out. I'd say it's the other way around. Neither fighter can make the money that fight generates outside of that fight. Add the legacy factor and not accepting 50-50 looks like ducking.
I'm not sure where you got the impression Fury thought Wilder was the weaker option because he's always said that he thought Wilder would ko Joshua. Even before they were set to fight. Fury always gave Wilder his respect, I don't think that was reciprocated, hence the tantrum since the last one. Just watched an interview with Ellerbee and he still doesn't seem to rate Fury. Gave all the credit to Sugar Hill.

DAZN would have lost a lot of money but pandemic aside they would have planned to do so as well. They are backed by Len Blavatnik who has super deep pockets. From what I'm hearing the last Canelo fight did wonders for subs in the US and I know for a fact it did in the UK because I have people who I didn't even know watched any boxing at all (super casuals), telling me they've signed up. What will make or break them is whether the fighters are convinced or not and the longer they just exist, the more that will happen. I hadn't heard about the Ennis situation before this but if that's true, that's huge. If he's not the number one prospect in the world at the moment, he's definitely in the conversation.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

Spence could at 154 and higher likelihood for that happening for him too & cant leave out the opportunity of Pacquiao money for both neither, legacy....yet one fighter's pricing himself out of that chance for himself and it aint Spence

didnt Fury say that of Wilder knocking Joshua out after signing on to fight Wilder and post first fight

as it should Canelo is THE global superstar of boxing
and what are your thoughts on Triller?

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

Disagree on 154. Charlo isn't as popular outside the US as Crawford is and as good as Castano is, he has 0 casual recognition. Pacman won't fight either fighter because he'd get wiped out in 3 rounds. It's all talk to keep him relevant.
Fury has been singing Wilder's praises since before he fought Klitschko and it never changed until after the second fight and Wilder started making all those allegations.

I'll be honest and say I haven't watched a Triller fight night yet. I'm a massive Snoop fan but the last show sounded like a cringe fest. Let's see, I'm gonna cough up for Lopez Kambosos so I will be able to give a more rounded opinion after that.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

Crawford aint popular like that in the US much less outside lol, Crawford hasnt got a whole lot casual name recognition either
you may be right with Pacquiao....in all honestly id like to see him rematch Thurman after a tune up if he return...one way he fights Spence if he's cashing out the sport, would be interest for that fight, especially if Pacquiao can look real good in a tune up...Pacquiao definitely has safer options out like the winner of Khan Brook or one of the 2 or exhibitions

yup Ryan Kavanugh of Triller saying there gonna be changing that vibe up for and making it more professional for Teo's fight with a full on boxing crew while retaining Snoop Dogg so you may win on multiple fronts there my guy

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

2 potential lucrative fights for Crawford could be if Taylor beats Ramirez...fighting Taylor in the UK perhaps or if and when the titles splits after the winner of Charlo Castano drops em and Tim Tszyu wins say the wbo at 154 and needs to entice Crawford to Australia for a title defense

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

I would say Crawford is more popular outside of the States than he is inside. Much like Wilder in fairness. I felt the global market got more excited about fury wilder 1 than the US did.
Fingers crossed on the Triller night. What's your opinion?

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

i didnt mind the whole vibe...only if they could fcking keep the camera in the ring for the full 3 mins of a rd i'd be content lol, not a fan of the concerts that's probably something they'd get rid of for the Teo fight or im hoping so anyway lol

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

The bigger picture is to what extent the actions of PBC (mainly) are harming the sport of boxing.

Sure, promotional wars are an age old problem but the growth of MMA has taken some boxing fans over and I don't blame them. In UFC they're not bothered about unbeaten records or fighters coming out once every 2 years or whatever, they all fight each other and the best fighters all fight with them. I may be wrong but I don't see Bellator as a worthy challenge, so you get the best fighting the best generally in UFC and it works.

What boxing fans want to see is the best fighting the best and as regularly as possible. Not 1 fight max per year. That's detracting so much from the sport. PBC seemingly don't want to do any cross deals in the hope of forcing the best fighters over to them, otherwise they don't get big fights. It's like suffocating someone until the decide to breath the toxic air you offer them. It's not ethical, it's a horrible business model in the sporting world. Some fighters like it because they get sold into lower risk/less fights for bigger payouts (Gary Russell Jr for example).

Hearn is the lesser of many evils in my opinion. The bottom line with Hearn is he wants to put as many shows on and get people fighting. More volume than margin (not that the margins are bad!). He'll do cross promo if it makes sense.

There's differing views on what he did in the UK. I think overall he's moved the sport forward. His deal with Sky modernised the sport and got it to a wide audience. Frank Warren is old school whereas Hearn is more outward looking in my opinion, like his old man. He's seen the opportunity with streaming and flexible subscriptions which will entice new and existing audiences. I think he'll certainly have the fight fans more on board with this approach but we'll see if he can get the fighters.

One thing I do agree with Bob on is that Al is the cancer of boxing. A few years ago I didn't expect to hear myself say this but I hope Hearn succeeds, takes over the US and gives fight fans the big fights that they deserve, on a much more regular basis.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

Agree. One point I would add is that Hearn has made no secret that he wants to control boxing UFC style and have all the best fighters under the Matchroom banner, which I hope he never achieves but is exactly what we are accusing PBC of. The difference is, he doesn't do it at the blatant expense of the integrity of the sport. "Lesser of many evils" was spot on.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

He won't be and the Joshua vs. Fury issue illustrates a key reason why: He's too naive/inexperienced in the sport. He comes off like a car salesman or a slimy politician, he sold the Joshua vs. Fury fight as if it was signed and sealed for months, not Arum. Now it's clear why Arum was so pessimistic about it regardless of what he said, the arbitrator had a chance of deciding in Wilder's favor which is a legally binding decision. Wilder is in his right to demand the fight legally, if he doesn't want to take step aside money that's tough. Whether it's due to blind pride and arrogance and/or that he thinks he can really win the third fight I have to respect that he'd take up the challenge, few will pick him to win. Furthermore, if Arum really had a date reserved in Las Vegas for July it shows he always knew there was a chance Joshua vs. Fury would be off. There are a number of issues with the top promoters, if Hearn is the top its in part by the incompetence of others.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

I don't disagree with anything you've said, I just believe it's because of those reasons that he will (100% on your last sentence, the incompetence of others will see him through).
The fact Arum had a hint of this and did nothing about it is shockingly unprofessional. There was not enough (any?) pressure put on PBC through the media to get them to fight last year. They could have tested the waters by trying to get Fury out against a Kabayel last year, took the financial loss and been sure of their position but they did nothing even though he was "aware".
Top Rank are 100% to blame for this scenario, not sure how much of that is Arum but he hasn't helped.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

Your argument seems to be that Eddie will be the #1 US promoter in 5 years because he's the least incompetent, but it was actually Eddie who was incompetent in this very important situation. He sold the fight as if it was signed and sealed, Arum didn't (he said he had "absolutely no confidence" whereas Eddie said it was a "done deal") and clearly made plans in case it failed. It was Fury/TR's side that didn't want the trilogy and tried to get out of it (not PBC), that they messed up the timeline of the Fury/Wilder and Joshua/Fury fights is their fault, but any promoter will try to cash a huge fight like this if they see an opening to avoid becoming one of the many historical "over marinations" of fights. They didn't do well financially on the Fury vs. Wilder fights because of what kind of purses guys demand and it may be difficult to sell the third fight, any fight versus someone like a Kabayel will be a big loss unless they get Fury to take less. Arum has run Top Rank awfully in the last few years, they have done an awful job with Crawford and Inoue while putting everything into Lomachenko who could never be a legitimate PPV seller in the US. I'm not biased towards Top Rank, they deserve blame for this situation but Eddie and journalists (or "journalists" in the case of Coppinger) really oversold what had happened in getting the Saudi deal done and what could happen with the arbitrator.

I saw you said you're from the UK, so perhaps you should take a step back and try to look at the situation more objectively, Eddie has done a good job in the UK building/rebuilding boxing but he had structural advantages that he doesn't/won't have in the US. There isn't a power vacuum with only Frank Warren as an obstacle and he can't bet on a silver bullet like the Golden Boy incompetence that helped to build PBC. Eddie has generally done a poor job of getting his US fighters into good positions, Andrade and Haney are good examples of this. They basically have to promote/angle for themselves.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

Eddie's come out of this smelling of roses. I do not like the man, can't stress that enough. He was the one selling the fight but he delivered while the other side was saying he wouldn't get it done. He delivered on the promise that the Wilder issue wouldn't be a problem so not only has he delivered his bit but the other side didn't deliver theirs. I've just thought of this but it's no wonder Top Rank were poo pooing it because if Eddie's deal had fallen through, then none of this Wilder stuff would have come to light. He did the deal and now they have egg on their faces.

I'm from the UK but there's no bias on this issue, I prefer Bob as a character and I prefer his stable. I'd find it funny if Eddie failed because of the arrogance etc but he pulled it out. One thing I would be biased on is how much exposure he has or hasn't got his American fighters. It's hard to be objective because they obviously recieve more attention here. More Brits know who Andrade is, than know who Charlo is and maybe even Spence but I wouldn't bet my house on that last one.

Last point on being prepared; the Usyk fight has always been there for Matchroom. They've been covered the whole time.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

Hard to say that when he sold the fight as if it were done and it failed. Don't promise what you can't deliver, simple as that. I'm not interested in debating it further but I just wanted to comment because it will be difficult to have it both ways that Hearn will be the #1 promoter and that he has little to no responsibility/blame in the promotion of the #1 fight in boxing falling through when he was one of the two promoters working on the fight. Hope the fight works out for the end of the year or 2022 after Fury vs. Wilder is settled.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

It failed because of the other side. Hearn met all his responsibilities with aplomb. Biggest fight deal in history and it broke down because Top Rank couldn't organise a jolly-up in a brewery.
We both want the same thing. Fingers crossed.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

Hearn has no responsibility to take into account or know about a potential legal impasse for the fight, very well.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

Being aware and being responsible for it are 2 different things. He had a duty to be aware for the sole reason that he had to have cover for his own fighters. The ownership of the arbitration lay solely with Top Rank. Nobody knows the exact details but you can make a logical assumption that they were telling people it would be no problem right up to the last minute because: 1. The Fury announcement the day befor the arbitration 2. The Bob Arum interview with Boxing Social on the day of the arbitration.

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

DAZN = the WCW of pro boxing. Oh let's just sing this guy and give him $300 million and then we'll sign this other guy and give him $100 million and this other guy for like a $100 million as well. I guess make money printer go brrrrrrr

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

I was never a fan of the circus but loss leading is an age old tactic. Blavatnik announced as the richest man in the UK today. 100 million to him is a hundred to me and you. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/l/lossleader.asp

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

Spot on. believe it or not, Amazon did the same thing. They spent their first few years purposely losing money to get the brand out there, then followed logistics, then....take over the world! On the boxing front, even Frank Warren started buy paying fighters more.

Canelo has star appeal, whoever runs his shows automatically becomes huge and that's a big part of his strategy to crack the states.

Also agree with your take on Hearn v Bob on this fight. Hearn has his fighter, Bob has his. No blame whatsoever on Hearn's part for the fight falling through. Fury/top rank should have made sure that was sorted before finalising the fight.

I'm surprised there's not been more negotiating to pay Wilder off to be honest, which may still happen. Hell, they could probably persuade the Saudi's to pay half of it!

Re: Hearn will be number one in the US within 5 years

I doubt it.