Jose Carlos Ramirez vs Josh Taylor Scorecard by Gold


scorecard by GOLD
Round
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
Total
JOSE CARLOS RAMIREZ
9
10
10
9
9
8
8
9
9
9
10
9
109
JOSH TAYLOR
10
9
9
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
9
10
117

Fight:



More:

Jose Carlos Ramirez

Josh Taylor



We do need help growing, please share:

Comments

Champion97's picture

Did you enjoy this fight? I thought it was great, I think both raised their stock. Which would you rather see Crawford vs Taylor at 147? Or Taylor vs Lopez at 140? Both are great fights, no doubt.

Gold's picture

I thought it was great, obviously I thought Taylor got the better of the late rounds some gave to Ramirez but it was still a fight where both guys got hurt multiple times and there were great exchanges. It was one of those fights I think if you read into it too much you could say it dropped their stock because they both showed weaknesses, but they both are very high level operators and were able to use their relative strengths against the other's relative weaknesses. I only watched it when it was live but I remember thinking Ramirez was fortunate on one of the counts. I would like to see Taylor vs. Prograis II next or soon, I think Prograis did the best out of any opponent Taylor has faced thus far. I think both Crawford and Lopez will go in other directions. I think Taylor vs. Lopez is a more competitive fight, I honestly think Crawford would beat Taylor clearly. I think it will be Taylor vs. Caterall next, I haven't seen him in a while but I never saw anything I was overly impressed by. He's a mandatory though so I understand why he would do it, and it will be nice to see an undisputed champion get a defense in.

Champion97's picture

Credit to yourself and everyone else who said with a fair amount of confidence that Taylor and Prograis are better than Ramirez, Ramirez is very good, I think the third best opponent Taylor had fought, but I was proved wrong. He was fortunate in terms of how the referee conducted his assessment after the knock down, but he was unfortunate to be dropped in the first place in round 7, he shouldn't have assumed, but Bayless mislead him by tapping Taylor's arm, which is strange when the referee isn't about to call a break. I was more impressed by the first knock down, from Taylor, believe it or not, because of how well he set up the shot, if Davison taught him that, credit to him, I hadn't seen Taylor land a shot like that off the back foot, I thought the second knock down was a great shot, but a case of opportunism. Prograis is with PBC and at 147, obviously that doesn't mean the fight can't happen but I don't think Taylor will want that fight, I agree on Prograis in general, he's in the mix at 147, and there are fights for him. I can see Lopez going after the Haney fight for undispited, and if Taylor moves up, Crawford doesn't have a belt to win from him, he's high risk, but he's still very high reward. I'd have to think about the fight, I think Taylor is slightly bigger than Crawford, but he would be wise to have a decent tune up at 147 before fighting him, he has a far better resume, but obviously, his career hasn't been easy, and I suppose that's what makes Crawford impressive, not beating great fighters, but beating good fighters easily and proving to be versatile against different styles. Highly likely it will be, I think Catterall is good for tune up, and after Taylor beat Ramirez, I think one tune up is fair, especially given the schedule he's had since the Postol fight.

Robert Garcia has been getting a lot of criticism for the defeat, which I think is very unfair, I thought the difference was Taylor's timing, accuracy, ring IQ, I saw some adjustments with how Ramirez used his jab, and made adjustments with his feet, and I definitely don't think Ramirez would have done better with a different trainer. What do you think?

Gold's picture

I think Prograis is a free agent which is why he fought Redkach on Triller, I think that would make a lot of interesting fights more possible for him but he has little leverage outside of fan demand. I don't think Taylor's size would make a difference (if there is one), Crawford is adjusted to 147 and is physically strong. I think the versatility would be a big issue for Taylor, Crawford is more powerful than Ramirez and getting the better of Crawford would be difficult because Crawford is longer and would be able to work the body as Ramirez did but more effectively. I think the tune up is fine for Taylor, it just isn't the most exciting fight.

I don't think Ramirez would have done better with a different trainer either, Garcia got Ramirez to that point and he has a clearly developed style that seems to take advantage of what he's good at. I didn't expect Ramirez to win so I don't have any ire at Garcia.

Champion97's picture

Of course he did, I assumed he was with PBC, because he fought on the Davis vs Santa Cruz undercard last year. Free agent or not, I don't think the rematch is high reward for Taylor at all, when Prograis has no belt, I don't think fighting on that Triller show raised his stock, his fight against Heraldez wasn't the co-main event or third to top of the bill, so he couldn't make much of a statement, I hope Prograis can get a chance to put himself back on the map in his next fight, I had the Taylor fight a draw. About Prograis, I saw your post earlier about Prograis being all wrong for Matias, I agree 100%, Prograis did good work off the back foot against Taylor, doesn't have fast feet, but he has good footwork, he wouldn't have to stand in the pocket or push Matias back.

I don't either, I think there is one because I think he's bigger at 140 than Crawford was, will still be relatively big at 147, but I think if Crawford was Taylor's first fight at 147, that would favour Crawford because he's experienced at the weight. True about Crawford's body shots, and he can do damage to the body from long range, can set up his shots without risking being set up himself, that's the ring IQ, but Taylor has those attributes as well, I think Crawford more so, and I'd lean towards him if they fought, but Taylor's opposition in the last 3 years has been far better, and Crawford would be stepping up in level more than Taylor, I don't think Postol had an off night against Taylor or was worse than against Taylor, and Crawford beating him so one sided, being so much more dominant than Taylor against still decent opposition is enough for me to pick him to win, but for me it would be 60/40, 65/35 tops, I'd love to see that fight, I think it would be more technical in the first half, and more entertaining in the second half, it would be interesting to see who would get the better of it on the inside, and who would be a step ahead on the outside.

You'll have heard about Pascal, disgusting, 4 substances, almost as bad as Miller, I think he should get a life ban, certainly a long ban and a very heavy fine.

Gold's picture

I don't think the Crawford vs. Taylor fight will happen, I don't know the situation or anything about it but I don't know if Crawford will re-sign with Top Rank, they haven't been able to get him any level of opponent and he would likely have to re-sign for them to offer Taylor as an opponent.

He looked very obvious, I heard there was some kind of involvement with Memo Heredia as well which isn't surprising but I don't know the timeline.

Champion97's picture

That makes sense, I hadn't thought about the logistics of making the fight. It's terrible timing, just when there's a great potential fight for Crawford with Top Rank, it's when their working relationship is likely over.

Certainly in hindsight, but it's hard to accuse a fighter of cheating without proof, not saying it's wrong, there are some fighters I'm highly suspicious of, who haven't been caught, but Pascal wasn't one of them because he's always had some power, Browne has a weak chin, and he did gas against Jack. Heredia is working with Ugas now, which I think is unwise, I wouldn't trust Heredia, he says punching power can be developed, which seems like a defence for his fighters hitting harder than before he worked with them, which I've heard has been the case with some of his fighters, and he's said he's the only trainer who isn't involved in PEDs, which only incriminates him.

Gold's picture

I don't really feel bad for Browne, I don't expect these guys to be moral agents but Browne is clearly not a good person so I enjoyed the Pascal fight. I don't know what Pascal was doing earlier in his career, he was always a good athlete, but his career revival seemed to come with working with Memo and now he popped for everything under the sun. Ugas looks suspect to me as well, I would be suspicious of any fighter working with these "reformed" guys like Memo and Conte.

Champion97's picture

As you said at the time, 'it couldn't have happened to a worse guy'. In an ideal world, he would have been behind bars in the first place, he didn't even deserve the opportunities he got. I agree on Memo, and about Conte, I was disappointed by his preparation for Mikey against Spence, I think the muscle building process is what he helped Mikey with, Spence could definitely have backed Mikey up more if he'd had a more aggressive strategy, and I think Mikey gassed after 8 rounds, he looked very slow as well, as muscle doesn't have to slow a fighter down. I didn't agree with something Conte said about roadwork, saying it isn't useful because it weakens fibres in the muscle tissue, roadwork obviously shouldn't be relied on by itself, but almost all fighters do it.

Ritson vs Ponce isn't a fight I'd recommend because it was one sided, but if you can find a highlights video, that might be worth watching, it was a great performance from Ponce, I'm very impressed by him, he had some competitive fights against a lower level of opponent, but he's a very young fighter, needed learning fights, I think a lot of fighters get underestimated for that reason. We have our fair share of referees in the UK, but Steve Gray has to be the worst, I'm sure you'll have heard about what he did, he won't be, but he should be sacked.

Gold's picture

I think we've covered the bases with the Spence vs. Mikey fight before, I think Mikey fought very defensively as the fight set in and Spence was okay with boxing him and not pressing in. I don't know how Conte wants to build endurance otherwise, I'm sure he has his methods but as you said roadwork is proven. I'm sure there is a point of overtraining by overusing it but that can go for any training tactic.

I saw Ritson lost by KO, I may watch the highlights. I'm usually skeptical when they bring guys over from Argentina to the US or UK, it seems like they are almost always just there to go rounds but obviously that wasn't the case here. Hopefully, he can get more fights, but I think Ritson was ready to go for the right opponent and showed he likely wouldn't make it to the top level once he lost to Patera. I didn't see the Gray controversy, what happened?

Also, did you see or hear about the Fury vs. Wilder press conference? I didn't watch it but I heard it was very bizarre and Wilder didn't say anything. I think it is tough to judge what Wilder is doing, I think there is a slim chance he is focused and trying to improve but I think it is more likely he believes the nonsense that he was cheated and will come in with no legitimate strategy, just trying to take Fury's head off.

Champion97's picture

I know we have, I was referring to the fight only in regards to Conte. I agree 100% on roadwork, any training technique can be overused, and it has proven to be beneficial in boxing.

It was a great performance from Ponce, and he's only 24, I wouldn't mind seeing him fight Vasquez next, that would be a good test for him and could be a good learning fight, Vasquez likely got robbed against Ritson, and because his style is so different to Ritson's, Ponce would need a different game plan. I agree on Ritson, but even if the beating against Ponce hasn't ruined his career, he can't afford to take much more damage after that. Ritson had already taken far too much damage when it was clear he had no chance of winning, Ponce wasn't leaving a lot of gaps, took Ritson's power well whenever he did land, he proved to to better on the outside, dominated Ritson on the inside, Ritson's corner gave him poor advice, told him to weather the storm, when the fight as it was going was obviously taking a lot more out of Ritson than Ponce, and when the corner finally threw the towell in, Gray threw the towell back out and pointlessly counted for 2 more knock downs, disgusting.

I watched it, very unprofessional from Wilder, he should have answered Crystina Poncher's questions, it was just rude from him, she was respectful and polite to him. I don't agree with that personally, I think he has a plan to land the straight right hand off the back foot, I think he is trying to be unpredictable, still doesn't want to accept the defeat.

Gold's picture

Vasquez would be a good option, he's still a good opponent level guy. I'm sure you've seen or heard of Cotto vs. Foreman, similar situation there where the ref wouldn't stop the fight because the corner threw in the towel. The corner should be able to stop the fight in the middle of the round if they think their fighter needs to be pulled, they are one of the lines of defense along with the referee.

I think Wilder seems very erratic, I don't really know how much of it is an act or not but I very much doubt a lot of it is because he's been going on with it for so long. If he goes in too tense and wound up about the last fight it's not going to end up well, he may gas out easier than last time. It seems like Fury is in good shape mentally and has had more time to train with Sugar Hill which I think can only benefit him.

Champion97's picture

I don't think Wilder's behaviour tells us much about his mentality because there are a few different ways of looking at it, he might just not have wanted to get into a verbal confrontation with Fury, on the other hand, he might be struggling mentally, I think it's impossible to tell now, but the questions about his mentality will be answered on the 24th. I think Wilder would have accepted the loss if it had been a great fight, he accepted the draw in the first fight, but I think it was being dominated so easily he couldn't accept, and if he knows he wasn't listening to his coach, was too heavy, was dismissive to his opponent's threat because of his own power, and he has room for improvement, his belief isn't false confidence, and there is more pressure on Fury, a fight can't go much worse than Wilder has already experienced, think what's at stake for Fury. I liked what Scott had to say at ths press conference, he was arrogant, didn't make it about himself like Angel Garcia or Teofimo Sr, I thought he was realistic, is confident Wilder will be different in this fight not because he is a better trainer than Breland in general but because he works better with Wilder, I expected him to hype himself as a trainer. Hill got the game plan right last time, but the obsession with punching power from Fury and his team isn't a good sign in my opinion, Fury stopped Wilder with accumulation, it was definitely more about fatuige, Fury will never be a puncher.

Do you think you'll lean towards Wilder to win?

Gold's picture

I think it does because it is very rare to see a fighter meltdown like that after a loss and continue acting like that going into a rematch. I agree we will see on fight night which is what matters and I agree that Wilder likely thought he couldn't lose like that. I don't think there is a lot of pressure on Fury because of his mentality. I really think he could just retire at any point if he doesn't view the money/fights as worth it. I think Malik Scott is better for the same reason you do, but that plays into how mental it is for Wilder that he needs someone to cater to him versus who is the more skilled/better trainer. I think it is hard for someone who is 6'8 260+ to ever be a non-puncher. I think both Sugar Hill and Fury are too smart to go into the fight with an obviously bad gameplan, but it would be interesting to see if Wilder can withstand Fury's onslaught because if Fury can open up to the body in close I think that could really drain Wilder. All of that is speculation though, I expect both of them to be better than in the second fight with their adjustments and more training time. I'll probably pick Fury but it wouldn't surprise me if Wilder won, both because you may be right in saying Wilder doesn't want to deal with it and he's actually focused, plus even if he isn't he can still land the big punch as we all know.